Trump Audio Controversy: Men Talking to Other Men About Women & Sex

Donald J. Trump and Billy Bush
Republican Presidential Candidate Donald J. Trump, Sr. (center) described his sexually explicit ‘kiss & tell’ conversation with former Access Hollywood Co-Host Billy Bush (left) as ‘locker room banter.’ Is Trump right in his description?

As expected, ever since the story broke about Republican Presidential Candidate Donald J. Trump, Sr. and his ‘kiss and tell’ conversation about women and sex with former Access Hollywood Co-Host Billy Bush, I have had a number of male friends, acquaintances, and clients ask me my thoughts about it, as well as a quite a few of my female friends, acquaintances, and clients.

For those reading this blog article who are not familiar with me, when you visit my article, you will see in the description of who I am and what I do that one of the things I am known for is “engaging in erotically explicit ‘dirty talk’ with women.”  My nickname among many of my male and female followers is ‘The King of Verbal Seduction,’ which gives you a small hint that I am not the most ‘PG-13’ type conversationalist in the neighborhood.  I am the author and narrator of an audiobook entitled, Oooooh . . . Say it Again: Mastering the Fine Art of Verbal Seduction and Aural Sex (which is currently the #5 best-selling audiobook in the category of Erotica & Sexuality > Self-Help Advice on and I have been the host of an adults-only podcast program titled, The Erotic Conversationalist (which centers around X-rated interviews and discussions with female guests about discussion topics and issues related to women’s sexuality) since July 2009.

Should Donald Trump’s conversation with Billy Bush be considered ‘normal talk between men’ and/or ‘locker room banter?’

The above paragraph featuring excerpts from my résumé and other biographical information aside, let’s just say that if anyone has a right to express an opinion on The Donald’s conversation with Billy Bush, it is me.  In a nutshell, I both DEFEND Trump while also maintaining a number of different CRITICISMS of Trump’s conversation with Bush.

I will begin with what I ‘defend’ about Trump’s conversation.

In Defense of Trump’s conversation with Billy Bush

I would make the argument that each and every citizen of this country has engaged in at least ONE personal, private conversation with someone that they would not want to be broadcast on national radio and/or national television.  I know I have.  That said, Trump’s conversation with Bush was not 100% “private.”  There is a big difference between a public conversation (e.g., me speaking to an audience of 250 or more people at a workshop), a social conversation (e.g., me speaking with a small group of friends and acquaintances at a restaurant), and a personal and private conversation (e.g., me speaking with family members and/or very close friends in the privacy of my home).

I would classify Trump’s conversation with Bush as a ‘social conversation.’  If you watch the video, there were other men on the bus with Bush and Trump.  It was not just those two men.  I have come to realize that when both men and women feel ‘relaxed’ and ‘comfortable’ in a social setting, they are likely to discuss things that they might avoid talking about in a more public scenario.

Let’s be clear:  Beginning with high school, most men discuss the subjects of women and sex with their male friends.   So do women.  I’ve eavesdropped on a lot of ‘kiss and tell’ sessions among women I knew.  They discussed men and sex, and the men discussed women and sex.  So talking about the subject of sex with your friends and acquaintances who are of the same gender is no biggie at all.

Also, many men (and women) use a lot of profanity as well as a lot of explicit R-rated, X-rated, and even XXX-rated language while they are discussing sex with their male friends and acquaintances, female friends and acquaintances, or a combination of both.  With the exception of ‘verbal prude’ types and deeply religious types, this is not unusual.  Not at all.  My own late mother said to me once that she never realized how much of a ‘potty mouth’ her baby boy (me) had until I was about 25 or 26 years old after she saw me doing stand-up once.  When I was young, I rarely if ever used profanity around my mother, father, or older relatives, but around my brother and other close male friends?  For sure.  Maybe not in each and every conversation, but enough of them.

So, my final assessment would be this as far as DEFENDING Trump’s conversation with Billy Bush:

  • Men, beginning with as young as 11 or 12 years old, will frequently discuss girls / women and the subject of sex with their male friends and acquaintances;
  • Men, depending on where they are and who they are conversing with, will many times use very explicit R-rated, X-rated, or even XXX-rated language;

In addition, Trump has never remotely attempted to present himself as some sort of clean-mouthed ‘choir boy’ type.  Trump actually takes pride in being perceived as a loudmouthed asshole and jerk, so no one should really be surprised by anything that comes out of his mouth.  Trump’s brand is to be ‘anti-politically correct.’  So his conversation with Billy Bush fit right into his brand.

Now, I will address what I had problems with regarding Trump’s conversation Billy Bush.

My personal criticisms of Trump’s ‘Sexual Braggadocio’ conversation style with Billy Bush

For starters, If Trump forgot he was ‘mic’d up’, then he is an idiot.  I have had a mic placed on me a number of times at conferences, speaking engagements, workshops, and panel discussions, so I am always consciously aware that everything I say can be picked up and recorded.  People who know my personality though know that there is not too much that I have said privately that I wouldn’t have the cajones to also say publicly regarding the subject of dating and relationships or sex.  If you watch the full tape between Trump and Bush, you will notice at the very end of the conversation, Bush says to Trump, “Give me my microphone.”  How could Trump forget he had a microphone on?  S-T-U-P-I-D.

Next, Trump confesses to Bush that he made sexual advances toward former Access Hollywood Co-Host Nancy O’Dell, but was rebuffed by her.  I will add that O’Dell was married at the time Trump made his advances.  What was the purpose of Trump letting Bush know that he tried to seduce and bed O’Dell, but failed?  I would halfway understand him ‘kissing and telling’ if he had successfully seduced a married woman, particularly one of O’Dell’s stature, but what benefit was derived from discussing a failed attempt at seduction?  I didn’t get that.

From what I know, Billy Bush is not an ‘extremely close friend’ of Trump.  Therefore, a conversation of this nature was out-of-place.  Have I ‘kiss and told’ a few details about some of my sexual experiences with specific women with other men?  Yes, I most certainly have.  Not often, but here and there … yes.  I rarely if ever ‘kiss and tell’ with men who I have just met or with men who I do not know that well.  For example, on my talk radio show and podcast programs, I have many times kiss and told about a number of my past sexual experiences … but I never include real first names and/or last names.  Never.  Ever.  (Matter of fact, many of my male listeners of my talk radio show used to tease me that I would always use the fictional names of ‘Linda,’ ‘Michelle,’ or ‘Tanya’ for every experience I described)

For someone who was 59 years old at the time, Trump should have known better.  It was as if he was trying to ‘impress’ Bush with high school level tales of seduction attempts that did not pan out.  That conversation would be normal for a guy who is between 14 and 17, or even 18 and 24. But not 59 years of age.  I recently posted an article on my Facebook Timeline about an idol of mine, Warren Beatty.  Aside from his great number of accolades as an actor, director, producer, and screenwriter, Beatty was known in Hollywood for being a major womanizer (or as others would say, a ‘serial monogamist’).  One thing I remember Beatty saying to an interviewer was, “a gentleman never ‘kisses and tells’ with random strangers about who he has been in bed with.  I never confirm or deny who I have been in bed with.  It is really no one else’s business.”

In fairness to men, some women also have a bad habit of ‘kissing and telling’ about their details of erotic trysts with male lovers.  Off of the top of my head, I think of former porn star and media personality Karrine “Supahead” Steffans.    Steffans has ‘kiss and told’ about damn near every male celebrity that she has ever had sex with.  There are a few other female celebrities who have done the same thing.   I once argued on my talk radio show that women actually ‘kiss and tell’ in far more specific detail than most men do.  Men, generally speaking, will not usually go into a lot of detail about their sexual conquests.  If a man wants you to know that he fucked Jane Doe, he will say so and leave it at that.  He won’t go into what positions they did it in, how long it lasted, and other miscellaneous details.  On the other hand, I have had female acquaintances describe in great detail many of their past sexual experiences with men.

Caucasian men and ‘celebrity privilege’

After the ‘kiss and tell’ portion of the conversation with Bush, here is where Trump lost the empathy of even many “macho” and “sexually boastful” men:  He began discussing celebrity privilegeand if I want to be even MORE REAL about it, WHITE MALE celebrity privilege.

No guy who is an ‘average Joe Schmoe’ type could ever get away with just walking up to a woman (who he just met) and attempting to kiss her and/or grope her.  That is almost like ASKING FOR a woman to charge you with sexual assault.  What man in his right mind could think he could get away with such behavior (without being a rich and famous celebrity)?  Even most non-Caucasian male celebrities could not get away with such behavior with women (with the exception of with their most loyal female ‘groupies’).   Matter of fact, speaking of the term ‘groupie’ … that’s exactly what a female ‘groupie’ is:  a woman who adorns a male celebrity so much, that she will let him know in her very first social interaction with him that he can kiss her, grope her, and generally have his way with her sexually anytime he wants to.  Why do you think so many men aspire to become rich and famous?  DUH.  For many, it is exactly for this reason.  So that these male celebrities can accumulate as many adoring female groupies as possible.

I lived in a fraternity house while a student at Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana for almost two-and-a-half years.  I talked with men daily whose sexual hormones were raging and their male testosterone flowing fully.  I can honestly say, I never heard a fraternity brother of mine bragging about ‘groping’ women and/or just randomly kissing women who they just met.  That just was never a conversation among us.  Some frat brothers ‘kiss and told’ more than others, and we all probably had a discussion about women and sex from time to time … but never about the notion of just walking up to a woman and grabbing her in her crotch area.

Being physically aggressive with women in your very first social interaction with them

Trust me … I am all for being verbally provocative with women … even to the extent of using X-rated or XXX-rated language with women … but I have never been one to promote and/or condone being physically aggressive with women.  At the risk of generalizing by race, if you are exceptionally physically aggressive with a Black woman who is not sexually attracted to you, there is a greater than 50% chance that she is going to haul back and slap the shit out of you.  Real Talk.  Even women who are not really the ‘violent’ type are usually going to have a very adverse reaction to a man who they just met immediately attempting to kiss them (other than maybe on the cheek) and/or grope them before they have even communicated to that man that they find him physically attractive and sexually appealing.

I am familiar with two pickup artists – Julien Blanc and Ken Hoinsky – who both caused major controversy when they were perceived as promoting attraction and seduction techniques with women that included behavior that was very physically aggressive and represented borderline sexual assault.  Blanc ended up having his travel visa revoked in one or two countries, and he had to go on television and issue an apology.  Some men who defend the likes of Blanc and Hoinsky argue that “many women want men to be (physically) aggressive with them.  It turns them on.  For a lot of women, that proves to them that you are a real man.”  Well, with some women … that might be valid, but for me personally, I will stick with whispering ‘erotic dirty talk’ into a woman’s left ear.  That magic of ‘talking dirty’ to women – if you really know what you’re doing – is that you can get a woman to become extremely sexually aroused without even touching their bodies just yet.  I like having that sort of power.

There was really no purpose to such a conversation other than being boastful for no good reason

Again, what was the purpose of this conversation?  To impress Bush?  To encourage Bush to begin exhibiting behavior toward women that resembles his own behavior?  Just for random entertainment?

For example, 90-99% of the time that I ‘kiss and tell’ about some of my past seduction stories with women with some of my male clients and/or talk radio show listeners, it is usually to point out to them that many women are not nearly as ‘prudish’ or as ‘strictly monogamy oriented’ as they may initially present themselves to be in public.  Now that I am older, I rarely share a seduction story with other men just for the sake of bragging. That serves no purpose to me.

Believe it or not, this audio tape controversy could actually HELP Trump instead of hurt him.  How?  Again, Trump has frequently said that he is totally against the idea of exhibiting “politically correct” behavior with the American public.  How much more “politically INCORRECT” can you be than what Trump was recorded as saying to Billy Bush in 2005?  In my opinion, such a conversation plays right into his brand as a contrarian … someone who goes against the grain of conventional wisdom and societal norms.

The consolation prize of this controversy is that it now opens the door … no, it blasts the door wide open … to have more public conversations about provocative and explicit ‘sex talk’ between men and men, women and women, and men and women.  I love discussing anything and everything related to dating and relationships, attraction and seduction, and sex.  Rarely get tired of it.

But … I am assuming that you already knew that.